Secret Thirteen Interview - Andy Black Forest & Tadas Švenčionis

Bridging Birmingham and Vilnius - Andy and Tadas speaks about their cultural experiences and the upcoming Umbra event with Emptyset in the front.

In Lithuania there are not many focused and niche events coming together with strong concept and interesting background. However, recently the new name emerged by connecting two likeminded people from two culturally diverse geographical points - Birmingham and Vilnius. Andy and Tadas met each other in 2010 in the massive Drop Dead Festival, which took place in Vilnius that year. Having the same interest in adventurous sonic explorations ranging from detroit techno to rural psychedelic folk they started to shape their collaboration plans until they were realized in 2014 in the form of Umbra.

The first event will take place on the 9th of May with Emptyset headlining. These talents of dark experimental/industrial techno have recently made an excellent mix for Secret Thirteen journal. Now Emptyset will blow the concrete monolith walls of Kablys (The Hook), the former Soviet cultural center built in a pseudo-classicist style. The event will also feature one of the most interesting local acts Oorchach, which creates surreal moods filled with raw industrial tension, also dj sets by Secret Thirteen head Justinas Mikulskis (a.k.a. S13), Flesh Flash and Vilkduja member Gediminas Jakubka a.k.a Patricia Kokett, Andy Black Forest, one of the masterminds of the event, and Požemis, the long-time participant of Lithuanian techno underground. Secret Thirteen is proud to be an informational partner of the event.

In the interview before the gig, the guys reveal some facts about their experiences, backgrounds, ideas, strange approaches and sonic adventures spanning from Birmingham 90's raves to Vilnius post punk festivals.

Interview:

How did you become involved in Lithuanian scene? What was the path that led you here? Why did you choose our small country for that particular event?

ABF: I first came to Vilnius in 2010 as a guest of the Drop Dead Festival which was organized by Polina Y from New York. I dj'ed and played a set with my electroacoustic project Doors to Nowhere. I stayed some time after the festival and got on well with the people I met , one of these being Tadas. I returned the following year to visit and during my stay started to discuss ideas for possible events. We had spoken about doing a Black Forest event in Vilnius since 2011 as to who would play the first event or the theme and aesthetic was undecided, and the idea went through several revisions before we came up with the concept of UMBRA.

What is the overall concept of UMBRA series? What is the primary idea of this event? Is it an ongoing series?

ABF: UMBRA will be exploring leftfield electronic music in its rawest and most pure form . It will be different from my UK shows and exclusive to Vilnius. I'll be djing stuff that I don't in the UK and getting a chance to indulge in my love for good electronic music that explores dynamic regions of the imagination and psyche.

Could you shed us some light on your future plans? Maybe there some more events in the meantime apart from the following Emptyset gig? What are your general future vision?

TADAS: At the moment we have one big act booked for this year, but there are smaller projects in the brainstorming stages right now. I wouldn't want to jinx them, so I'll refrain from answering. My overall vision is to organize events I would love to attend myself, and that implies many genres, not necessarily electronic music, not necessarily respectable music even. I'm not sure that there's any particular way we want to go, just so long as the events have a face that's interesting to look at. I think you could say it's a vision to think that every aspect of the event has to be compatible with one another - the music is merely the most important part of the general setting, the event should have a voice of it's own that goes beyond music. I hope we can achieve that eventually.

ABF: I am busy in the UK with shows regularly. I have Justin Broadrick doing two sets for me in July with his Final and Council Estate electronic projects and Stephen Mallinder's (Cabaret Voltaire) new project Wrangler playing for me in August too. I have lots of ideas for future Black Forest events, including plans to take the shows into other countries across the globe. Hopefully I'll get the time to work on these plans, but I would like to keep developing the shows into something unique. I am working on an idea for an exhibition currently, details of which will be hopefully announced soon.

Could you briefly explain the specifics, differences and potential difficulties in organizing the events of such types? What are the peculiarities of UK and Lithuanian markets? What are the differences of Western and Eastern European audiences? Could you tell us something about the local scenes of the places you live (Birmingham and Vilnius).

ABF: Birmingham had a great electronic music scene here back in the 90's, but since the gentrification of Birmingham Post 2000, I find the scene now to be perhaps fragmented . You can still have successful nights here, but the atmosphere of the city has definitely changed. I think things are changing though presently there could be interesting things on the horizon - we'll see. Birmingham of course was a central hub of the industrial revolution. If you come here, you can see why Napalm Death, Scorn and all these acts sound like they do. The concrete brutalist architecture of Birmingham inspired a whole generation of artists and musicians. Birmingham has a musical legacy as big as say, Manchester, who will talk until they are blue in the face about Joy Division, The Hacienda etc. but what we have in our past - from say, Black Sabbath to Neil Rushton's Network records and the part he played in detroit techno scene - we don't shout about here for some reason. I am currently working on a project here to make sure that we do!

TADAS: I think we have many intelligent people, who are just not getting their brain food. I'm sure there are tons of stuff people want and don't even know they want it without having experienced it. A lot of that comes from the difficulties related to organizing - a lack of good venues, and people who have become bored of going to events because they all look kind of the same. I think you either have to go all-in and hope that you've touched a nerve or not go in at all - perhaps most people fear the implications of doing that. That's probably the main peculiarity of the Lithuanian scene (although I'll wager this is true to some extent to any post-Soviet country) - the fact that people are so hungry for something new they can't or shouldn't be able to afford to close themselves in a subculture or something of the sort, so anything that's even marginally different has great potential.

What are the criteria for the line-up and artists you pick? Why did you choose that particular acts? How are they important to you?

TADAS: It's probably a case-by-case thing, depending on what the hook is. In this particular case we worked off what Emptyset are about and tried to see whether we could find a distorted reflection of those qualities with the other acts. For me, everyone we have on is someone who has left an impression, and all of them have stepped into the Umbra - albeit from different sides - and come back wiser - there isn't a whole lot that is "lighthearted" or "carefree" about any of them.

ABF: Regarding Umbra, my initial interest in electronica was spurred by the early Warp records releases, and Jeff mills, Robert Hood, Mike Banks. Mills's Axis records imprint was a big inspiration (especially releases like "The other day" EP) using tracks to explore an idea or concept spatially through sound, the sense of going beyond or being pushed into a place somewhere by the music that seems to educates you in some way. Emptyset blew me away when I first heard them as they seemed to have that exploratory nature that had seemingly been lost in the course of modern electronic music. There's been great output in the last few years in the electronic scene I was ecstatic to find people were experimenting again, writing electronic music that was challenging, this to me is when electronic music is at it's most powerful.

Tell us something about your background and organizing experience? What was your path towards the experimental/psych scene? How did you arrive to that scene?

ABF: My first love was hip hop, then metal, punk and thrash. I then discovered industrial music and electronica at the age of 14, which although I got into many genres after was a huge influence on my life. When I was around 14, I would save my school dinner money to buy releases by PTV, The Hafler Trio etc. Discovering that scene and things like T.O.P.Y. fed my mind. I sang in a punk band when I was 16 and then got heavily into techno/house scene, illegal raves, feral parties etc. Birmingham had a huge dance scene in the 90's, I would watch detroit techno dj's on a regular basis here.

I got involved with Promoting Post 2000, I'd dabbled before in the 90's, but nothing regular. The techno scene was waning a bit, so I decided to get involved with more leftfield musics that I had always liked. Being from a background of feral parties and nights that frequently turned into hysteria, I found the onset of 2000's culture pale and conservative in comparison - people seemed to want to celebrate or reference bands from the industrial and experimental movement, but not to celebrate the ideas and things that they stood for. I wanted to create a night that had certain ideals and ethics behind it propelling it forward. After djing for years and being part of promoting groups, I started Black Forest in 2008 which I developed from my all my musical interests and creative obsessions and somehow merged that all together . The first show was with Rose McDowall and then the second was with Z'EV. Z'EV was a huge catalyst in the establishment of Black Forest - he introduced me to Cold Spring records, who I've worked with over the years. He's been a regular performer at the events.

Although the events have gravitated towards psychedelia and electronica, this was just a natural progression in music I wanted to explore, with UMBRA I am going to unveil a new angle to Black Forest.

TADAS: I've got no relevant background to speak of - my perspective is that of a long-time observer and nothing else really. As for the scene, I've always enjoyed grit and I guess it's no surprise then that my starting point on the way to the experimental scene was metal - black metal in particular. Later on, I remember going to Icetodiron in 2007 with some friends and being impressed by Deutsch Nepal (too bad he angrily left the stage after only a few tracks). The emotion I got from him was very familiar, yet presented in a completely different way than I was used to and not bound by any of the ideological clichés of most metal music that had been my playground. I remember appreciating being treated to something that I could draw my own experience from, rather than something that suggests pre-defined patterns of thought. I think that was the first moment I became really interested. Incidentally, that was the first time I heard Oorchach too.

What are you expectations from the live acts/gigs/ festivals? How do you imagine your ideal festival/concert? What was the best live act you have ever seen or festival you have ever visited?

TADAS: I expect them to leave me with something I didn't have prior to being there - whatever that might be. There's no ideal in my mind, what works for one act might be a complete disaster for another. I'd like to hear Coil in a 19th century mill in the English countryside, Public Enemy in an LA block party just before a riot and Džordana Butkutė in a private birthday party for some Kaunas mafia figure in the 90s. You could play with that order and get something that's fundamentally different, and if you work on pushing whatever that other concept is you can achieve real value. In an abstract sense, I want organizers to follow a Jello Biafra motto "I blow minds for a living", even the most terrible event that can come of that will leave you with substantially more than staying inside your comfort zone can ever hope to. As for personal favourites, recently I've been impressed by many gigs for many different reasons, but to keep in line with the train of thought I'll say the Asian Women on the Telephone gig last year left me with a lasting impression.

ABF: There's a guy in Birmingham called Grindi and he ran an event called 'Third Eye", where acid house, post industrial, dub and other experimental club music was played. Birmingham had a legendary venue - the Que Club - a venue inside an old Church, a huge arena with 5 other big rooms, it was like going to an indoor festival, and me and my friends would be sometimes there nearly every week. I became aware through going to events there of the psychic impact an event could have on someone. Anyhow Grindi put on a big show there in 1995 called 'The Third Eye Ball" and it had an amazing decor and a great set with props, performance art and visual installations and a blistering live show from Test Dept (also on the bill was a pre-fame Surgeon). The night just blew me away. At that time I was a teenager into esoteric counterculture books, the Birmingham techno scene and taking lots of acid and trying to find other people on the same wavelength and this event just clicked and resonated with me so much, that it's probably the greatest catalyst I ever had that encouraged me to become a promoter. This rave culture approach I integrated into my own events even if the music was outside of the rave spectrum - I like creating a kind of carnival atmosphere at the festivals I organise.

The best live shows of recent years? The time when Faust played at Radio Black Forest in 2010 - a truly mindblowing performance, Sewn Leather at the DDF Fest in Berlin too in 2011 was spectacular, he broke his nose during that performance and carried on! In fact that whole festival was pretty special.

What about the non-musical aspect of the gigs (visuals, other art forms venue, people etc.)? How important are they? Maybe you have something interesting planned for the forthcoming events?

ABF: I was chatting earlier this year to Naut Humon, who was the brains behind the legendary San Francisco art collective Rhythm and Noise. He now runs Recombinant Media Labs, I have mentioned that I would be very interested in a collaboration there. There's a lot of stuff I would like to explore thematically, for example, I am interested in Buckminister Fuller, the Austrian eccentric Viktor Schauberger and his writings on nature and dynamic ecology, some kind of interactive synthesis of my interests and creating a vehicle to let people to explore these ideas. The idea that there is something behind the events greater than the sum of its parts is important to me - Black Forest embodies the spirit of inspiration, magick, creativity - whatever you want to call it against the ever banal world being created for us by corporations and corrupt governments.Whether it be Psychic TV and T.O.P.Y, Spiral Tribe, Crass etc. I was always interested in bands that were not just trying to create LP's and a hit single, but a whole movement and way of life. I think dynamic cultures can cultivate important changes to people's perceptions of the world. We live in an interesting time - a lot of the ideas technology wise within the 80's/90's cyberpunk/futurist ideology are here now and the utopian/dystopian possibilities explored in some works of fiction are now very tangible. Where are we now going with our electronic based information dense global society? Are online communities real communities or a placebo for real interaction? Can they be utilized for good? Is the idea of creating the kind of community through music and culture I have outlined outmoded or still relevant? These to me are important questions - and is music still able to be politically challenging and a catalyst to exploring the ideas that inspire and matter the most to us? I think the ideas of Genesis Breyer P Orridge Psychic TV of deconstructing what a band is/can be are still very relevant, exploring the medium of popular culture and toying with its mechanisms. PTV have a body of work, which remains in my opinion unsurpassed in its experiments in exploring the relationship with language, sonics and popular culture.

Tadas: It can't be overstated how important these things are, because music aside they are exactly the things you can steer your concept with. We'll be playing with that at UMBRA. Of course there's only so much you can do with a venue that's a club - it already has its own feel, it's not a blank sheet of paper (which we would prefer to have in the future). We do have something prepared I personally haven't seen in Lithuania visual-wise, and I think the people that do come will not be passers-by simply because the format is pretty niche, and we haven't done much promo. I doubt our events will ever attract the casual listener though. In that sense there's only so many people who fit the bill, but I think that if it's cool, word will get around and that way you know you're getting the receptive type of crowd, which is, essentially, all we want. As for mixing other art forms, we're very open to the idea I think, and that's partly because it's a great tool, but also because I'd be hard-pressed to find a supporting band in Lithuania or any place close for that matter that could work in the same gig as some of the acts we want to have on in the future. Speaking of which - yes, there are plans galore, but we want to test the waters a little first.

What do you think is the importance of media and PR in nowadays underground? What have changed over the years regarding promoters and their relation with media? Is it a helpful tool for spreading the word or more a manipulation device oversaturated with information?

ABF: Well, used to go to events in the 90's that were full of hundreds of people through a couple of hundred flyers or even in some cases just on word of mouth. Today I just put an event on Facebook and can get a fully attended show - all media and PR now is done through the internet. I remember I used to laugh back in the 90's at the Japanese kids that were obsessed with computing, a branch of otaku. We used to see the tech obsessed japanese teens as an extremity or a subject of fascination - but now we are all like that globally to an extent, reliant we are on this symbiosis with electronic networks. Of course the internet culture does cause saturation, especially in the field of music, but I don't see any viable alternatives to promoting events and I don't subscribe to a neo-luddite viewpoint - I've gone out in all weather conditions brandishing flyers and pasting up posters, and there's definitely a certain charm in doing that, the fun of creating art for the flyers and the DIY aspect, but ultimately you have to embrace change I guess. Also where I live the City council is now prosecuting people who put up posters of events in the city so online promo is the best medium for me. Media itself is a neutral entity and can be used for better or worse, but ultimately I guess I've always been interested in subverting in how and what you can use it to promote - and seeing if you can use it for positive change on a grand scale.

More about Andy & Tadas: Andy's Website - Tadas's Facebook