Processing the dreams - the interview with COH
COH (pronounced as “son”) has two different meaning in Russian language. It means “dream” and “sleep” at the same time. The relation between these two notions reflects the variety of the world of Ivan Pavlov, the man behind this legendary moniker. In his vast discography Ivan explored various interesting uncharted territories of sonic fields ranging from sophisticated voice manipulations to playful analog experiments with rhythms and moods, thus creating a separate and colorful world of sound forms and illiusions.
Having just released his excellent full-length “To Beat” on the prominent Editions Mego label, Ivan answered some questions presented to him. In this interview he elaborates on his creative habits, sound development, collaborators and the places he lived/s.
Interview:
You have just released the new release "To Beat". What place this release occupies in your rich discography? Is it a summary of all the things you've done before, a step to a new period or something else? What does that record mean to you?
That sounds too grand. I rarely look back at what I have or haven't done, and at the "rich discography". Also it is never fully clear to me what the next record will be like - I mostly follow an impulse, a sort of "musical emotion" that occupies me at the moment. At the same time, I noticed more than once, that new records can give me a better understanding of what I was looking for in the earlier ones. Plus there are records that were conceived as "follow-ups": couples like “Enter Tinnitus/Vox_Tinnitus”, “Mask Of Birth/Love Uncut” and “IRON/IIRON”. In a similar sense, “To Beat” was intended to be a "sequel" to the previous album “Retro-2038”, expanding into the areas of more beat driven rhythmical patterns.
Both “Retro-2038” and “To Beat” feel very playful to me as the process and as the result. Even their titles are humorous, and offering certain freedom of interpretation. "To beat" suggests a progression towards beat, which is also what the album artwork displays. This progression is the direction taken from the previous record, and, technically, most of the beat patterns on the new album are derived from those used in the last piece of “Retro-2038”. But "to beat" can be also be interpreted as a challenge to overcome, and there's also a certain rhethorical notion into the verb - in October eMego will be releasing an album of remixes called "Or Not To Beat?".
Playful as they are, both records are quite detailed, which could potentially offer some extra entertainment on repeated listen. I like to think of this pair as "deep easy listening" and hope they can find the audience that will enjoy them that way.
You moved from Russia to Sweden in 1995. How do those two quite different countries are reflected in your art and personality? How do they influence you? What is your relation with your home country nowadays?
I feel that in several ways Sweden is very much a "Northern country". Together with the considerably high level of technology and general comfort in daily life, this allows for easy emotional isolation from the society and from the local "scene". It's a peaceful solitude of some kind, and I hardly ever meet the people I know here in Stockholm. Unlike in Russia, where communication at the personal level is both an essential part of social culture, and often a necessity in overcoming the mundane difficulties. Maybe in some way this isolation, this social hermetism of sorts, contributes to the way I work,and deal with the small publicity of music business I got involved in. Both where it comes to avoiding excessive musical influences from others, and to manifesting my own ideas in a fairly independent manner.
As for Russia, I do consider it my homeland, if only due to the amount of experience acquired during the years I lived there. I have a few friends in Russia, old and new, my mother still lives there and I visit the country almost every year, usually with COH shows. There is even a perspective of working together with a musician from Russia, but it's too early to talk about.
You have collaborated with Peter Christopherson from Coil? How did you get along and could you tell us more about this collab? What were your relations/connections for that scene?
I've known Sleazy since 1997 and we have maintained a good connection over the years, eventually becoming close friends - I remember him as very sensitive, attentive and respectful person. He was easy to work and hang around with, always humble and generous, and with a great sense of humour. We travelled quite a lot together, bound to be each other's only company for days, both during the European tours of Soisong, and during our visits to Japan -- which we used to describe as "gourmet tourism" as we usually spent serious amounts on the wonders of Japanese cuisine. During these travels, my visits to Bangkok or his visits to Stockholm, we never had a dull moment or a single argument despite my general unwillingness to compromise and a rather demanding attitude where it comes to work. He would even get up early and go to the gym with me when staying over!
As for the "scene". I don't think I connected much to any. My image of Coil, as a phenomenon, rather than a collective, remains very blurry. I prefer it that way and rarely look back. When Balance was still alive I managed to put together the “Love Uncut” EP, which was a tribute to the particular layer of music culture of the 80-ies, that used to fascinate me. The record features all members of Coil from the period: Balance, Sleazy and Stephen E. Thrower. I remain good friends with Stephen, his partner Ossian Brown, with Drew McDowall, whom I also know since late 90ies. That's all my connection with the scene, I guess.
Having in mind the fact, that you have quite an extensive experience in sound making, are there still things in nowadays music that make you wonder or surprise you? Do you have some favourite trend, acts, tendencies or phenomena of today?
I am not well aware of what is happening in the music world altogether. Usually, what excites me would be a small fragment, sometimes a few seconds long. It could also be a certain range of frequencies or a particular instrument part. Regardless of when the music was made or the style. This is the way I've come to appreciate, on a completely different level, disco music and heavy metal - many years after my fanatic teenage interest in them. I suspect many musicians acquire a similar view. I could find striking details in Thai traditional music or Yasutaka Nakata's J-pop productions, in eMego records that Peter Rehberg sends to me [ever since 1996!]or in a generous bunch of CDs I got from Jim Thirwell a month ago. Generally, I tend to be impressed by small details rather than something "big" - in everything.
I should perhaps add that following this "interest in detail" and having met over years a few artists capable of such "surprises", upon a suggestion from eMego, I invited a few of them to remix tracks from “To Beat” - for the “Or Not To Beat”? release I mentioned. I am happy to say none of them failed my hopes and the outcome is full of surprises.
Your title is translated as "dream". Do dreams, subconsciousness and related issues inform your sound/art and how?
Could be, but my self-aware mind doesn't tell me anything about it!
COH. To me it's more about being active, making an effort. In Russian COH means both "dream" and "sleep", which indirectly implies that dreamless sleep is so useless it doesn't even deserve a separate word. Some years ago a friend told me about a film called "To Sleep So As To Dream" [translated from Japanese]. I like to think that my band name reflects just on that - a particularly active phase of being. This is how I feel when making music, which is the time when it feels like I move forward and into something I haven't encountered yet, where anything can happen, which a bit like in a dream.
What is your favourite/most inspirational piece of gear and what is your relation to it? How important is actual instrument for you? Do you choose them according to the ideas you want to express or do they impose their own limitations?
I do not have much gear and have no personal attachment to any. I work mostly in computer, which is my instrument of choice because it's both challenging and offers nearly unlimited possibilities for sound synthesis, arrangement, and production. Unfortunately with an awkward underdeveloped interface for a musician, if compared to the older mechanical machines, like piano or trumpet. I very much hope in 100-200 years this can change, and there will be great computer music performances of many various kinds.
Coh Plays Cosey was an interesting experiment with the possibilities with human voice. How did this project emerged and what does it mean to you? How important are vocals to you as they are partly present in your new album as well?
I met Cosey in 2005 and for a while after we've been exchanging long emails on subjects of sexuality, creativity and expression. At a certain point we both felt that the textual exchange was insufficient and so we decided to make something together in order to push the discussion further and beyond words. I encouraged her to make high quality recordings of her voice, expressing this or another emotional state. She would then send over these little vocal documents, and I'd "zoom" into them, looking for the ways to make "instruments" out of them. Subsequently, I tried to create melodic and/or rhythmical structures that could qualify as "music" and carry the essence of the originally vocalised emotion. I did cheat a few times, pushing the material closer to the subject of sexuality, but for the most part Cosey's original expression is preserved and amplified throughout the compositions.
I do like working with voices, with interesting voices. I had a great time with Annie Anxiety's voice already back in 1999, for “Vox Tinnitus” - she has the most beautiful, unique, textured voice and an intensely generous and dynamic expression, to match her sharp, direct poetry. I also remember recording the voice of John Balance with Sleazy at their studio, and then twisting the feminine voice of Louise Weasel's out of it, for the “Love Uncut” EP. For the second Soisong album, we created virtual singers, working with software generated voices - akin to those I have used on "To Beat" or in the "AEIVAA II" choral. I made a few poppy songs with Japanese singers, and I am now doing production work for a French musician/singer Ma Cerise. Voices are always a challenge, especially in the context of digital sound, and a good challenge is what I value high.
What was the best and most intense sonic experience of your life?
By far it would be the soundcheck and the performance at Berghain in Berlin a few months ago, where we had a COH & FRANK show during the CTM 2014 festival. I also have strong recollections from spending time in an anechoic chamber as a sound researcher many years ago, but it doesn't come near the effect of Berghain's acoustics.
What is your relation to criticism? Do you often hear it and do you find it hard to accept? Do you see some outstanding good examples of music criticism in today’s media and what is the role of it?
I find music criticism to be both amusing and interesting as a phenomenon. I am sure it can provide much joy to both the musicians and the audiences, if taken with a grain of salt. It is easy to see when the author is genuinely interested in the subject or when it is more about his or her writing talents. I receive reviews of COH records from the labels and I do read them. They can be very entertaining, they can be flattering, they can offer interesting viewpoints, provide some indication, but I never think of them in terms of acceptance. Personally, I prefer to see a few negative reviews along with the good ones. I believe it's more healthy - if everyone boasts about how great your new record is, there's a fair chance your creative impulse has slowed down to the level of what people expect from you, or, alternatively, to the level of the current hype. Of course, getting bad reviews is not at all a sign of moving too fast forward, it could just as well be that you made a crap record!
Could you guide us through the ordinary day of you? Is there any boundary between you as an artist and as an everyday persona? Are these two selves different and what is the relation between them?
My days are quite prosaic: get up, have a run in the woods or a short gym workout, eat breakfast, go to work, get back home in the afternoon, cook a dinner with or for my family [we have two daughters]and spend time in their company, unless I feel an urge for a few late hours in the studio. Sometimes I stay in that studio full weekends or take days off work when I feel particularly "hungry" for sound. I do not separate the two parts and feel that music complements my everyday life quite naturally, not only by being that particularly "active" part of it, but also by giving to me some extra powers, and a similarly active attitude towards everything around me. The only boundary between the two is financial - having a proper job to make the living, I do not need to stress over making music that sells or to play shows I don't want to play. I like to be what one may call an "independent musician".
Any last word for our readers?
I wish neither my work, nor this interview are taken too seriously, no matter how sincere I may be in both.
1 Comment
Pingback: Pinkcourtesyphone - Secret Thirteen Mix 085 | Secret Thirteen